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Andy Stanley’s Controversial Decision

By on May 11, 2012


I’m a big fan of Andy Stanley. I listen to his podcast weekly, read his books and often view sermons on his church’s website. He is an excellent communicator and has an amazing ability of considering the people Jesus specifically spoke to while focusing in on the context of the situation, which leads to getting the most out Jesus’s words. I admire that skill greatly. Recently however, one of Andy’s illustrations has caused quite the stir in churches and fired off (what Albert Mohler calls) a “shot heard round the world”.

While teaching a lesson called When Gracie Met Truthie, Andy speaks about the tension between truth and grace.  As Christians we need to be able to fully accept, call and label sin for what it is (truth), but at the same time embrace the saving nature of Jesus Christ (grace). We are to completely accept both sides of that tension and we cannot forget either side of it. It’s an awesome message actually; check it out when you get a chance.

The main point behind the message isn’t the root of the controversy, it’s an illustration Andy used which lead many Christians (myself included) to whisper out loud or in their head a collective “huh?” Through a short anecdote, Andy revealed how he dealt with an openly gay couple serving at one of his churches (this situation was not the main point of the story, just a small detail in it). Andy informed the couple that they cannot serve as a “host team” because a man in the couple was still married, therefore committing what Andy called “good old fashioned adultery”. I’m sure most church-goers would agree with that decision.  Here’s where a lot of people get confused/offended however, from the way Andy tells the story, he seemingly had no problem with the couple engaging within a homosexual relationship and doesn’t cite that as his reason for telling them they can’t serve; his problem is with the adultery taking place. He never takes the time to label homosexuality as a sin.

I’m not here to bash Andy Stanley. I’ve read quite a few reactions to his sermon, and can see this issue from both sides. It would be unfair to make assumptions about Stanley’s stance on homosexuality based off of the story. The debate and controversy this story has created clearly highlights a greater issue within the body of Christ in 2012.

The church has yet to find an effective way to minister to the gay community. 

There are many situations in which the church has done a great job of meeting many people in the midst of  struggles the same way Jesus did. When an alcoholic or drug addict walks in, we find a recovery bible study for them. Many college ministries do a great job of welcoming young twenty somethings who are in the midst of enjoying everything the world has to offer, and getting them plugged into a small group. When a openly gay man or woman has an honest heart that desires to know more about God, and wants to become part of the church, how should the church respond? Is the church really creating a place for them? Can they become members? Can they serve on leadership teams? Where do we draw the line? Do we have the right to draw a line? It’s a tough situation. Ironically, this tension all comes back to Andy Stanley’s sermon; it’s a struggle between truth and grace.

I’m not saying I know the right answer, but I can be sure of the first step, and that’s to simply love them. Most of the gay community is completely aware of what the bible teaches about their lifestyle, but remain unaware of what it says about love, and a lot of that has to do with the way they have been treated by people who call themselves Christians.  Imagine how a gay couple would feel if they walked into a church and were greeted with love? How a lesbian at her job would feel about Christianity if a straight, bible believing Christian woman took the time to be her friend and listen to her?  The first step is to open their mind to Christianity, and that can be accomplished through love. Then the gospel can be shared. Then maybe they pick up the bible and read the good news. Who knows what God can do from there? When we love people we move them closer to the heart of Jesus then when we condemn them.

Did Andy Stanley take grace too far by allowing a gay couple to serve at his church? Have you ever had an experience ministering to a gay person? Positive or negative, share your experience in the comments section.

About Jonathan Ramoutar

Jonathan Ramoutar is a follower of Christ who is passionate about the church’s role in culture and male leadership. He is also an avid fan of the NFL (Tampa Bay Bucs) and NBA (Miami Heat).
  • http://www.amid.com/werd Rudy

    This issue with Gay Marriage and the Church has been blown out of proportion. I think Christians (and Mormons) have been the scapegoat of this controversy because we disagree, with love. Can you imagine being in an Arab or Muslim word, where homosexuality is dealt with severely, even with death?

    I guess the best way to reach out to the lost is to be heck of a lot more tolerant — even looking the other way, and pretend it’s not an issue.

    • Denise K

      I disagree.Tolerance to me has increasingly been the incremental compromise we have allowed to seep into God’s will for us. The devil is sly, he is subtle, not overt. He would have to be. Otherwise, this country would have rebelled with their second amendment long ago. No. Andy is wrong on this one. I’ve been going to his church for sometime then stopped to work weekends. I was listening intently to him on most matters each week and enjoying it until the one weekend (sometime last summer)…he suggested we were homophobic…started suggesting that mayyybeee the liberal side had a point. Every wrong gut feeling went off inside of me and I started that day looking online at what others might have thought about Stanley. Now, I will say this. I am an intuitive person and pray for wisdom and discernment. God is very generous with me in this manner. However, I also realize discernment is God’s call to intercession, not for the mere sake of fault finding. Still, Andy is confusing grace with compromise. God means what he says…period. You don’t hate the sinner. You don’t hate the divorcee. You don’t hate the adulterer. You don’t hate the homosexual. But it is what it is and you call it for what it is. Now, I’ve got a son growing up in his church. I have been happy with the youth program but I watch and I listen closely and I talk often with my son about these issues as our teens are inundated these days. I’m close to pulling him out of his church though because I am afraid his liberal tendencies will seep into his youth group leaders. The fact that he pals with people like Warren and Obama, the worst president ever after Carter is baffling to me. You can’t love Jesus and love this country and be ok with this president. There is no way! As a matter of fact, Taking a stand should be uncomfortable. It is generally not agreeable. I hate fence straddling. What are you for? What are you against? What are your convictions and what is the crux of your beliefs? If you truly stood for what God stands for…some people are not going to be happy with you and you can be sure they won’t support you. Look at all of Jesus’s followers who gave all..their very lives while walking out the Christian walk to the end. If Andy Stanley leads God’s children astray……it’s not going to be pretty. I’m praying for him. I hope the people that are Christian leaders will mentor him. I think I will take my son out. He loves the church and he loves God. He doesn’t see what I see at 14. I’m praying for something that will be “cool” in his eyes but still in line with God’s word and not a watered down version that makes allowances for what is clearly wrong. He needs to stop being sarcastic on Twitter and figure out what he stands for.

  • http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/ Chris L

    Jonathan,

    You need to remember that the illustration was about *the woman* – not about her husband, and not about church discipline – and her journey from bitterness to grace. The sin against the woman was the adultery by her husband, not his sexual preference. She was the one who brought the situation to Andy’s attention (because the husband was attending (not a member of) a different campus), and she was the one who relayed that he was still married to her. Since the story was about the woman, the narration centered around what was important to her.

    In reality, Andy’s sermon wasn’t “confusing” to the people claiming confusion. They all know that homosexual practice is a sin, and it’s not a sin they’re dealing with. They’re not confused about that, at all. They are concerned that Andy mentioned homosexuality without explicitly stating “which is a sin” or indicating that, in addition to the adultery, he confronted the husband about that, as well. Because of the culture wars in America, Evangelicals have taken on a bunker mentality where they either A) completely cede to the culture, by looking for loopholes to declare homosexual practice Ok; or B) treat homosexuality as a sin on another plane from all (or most) others.

    Don’t believe me?

    Answer me this honestly: Would any of the articles have been written and criticisms been cast if Andy had told the exact same story, but disciplined the husband for homosexual practice but not said anything (in the illustration) about the adultery?

    I know a large church in my part of the country that doesn’t address homosexuality from the pulpit, but it will answer questions 1-on-1. If you call them, they will first ask “Are you or a loved one struggling with this?” if you say yes, they will tell you to come in and meet with you and counsel you (I know, via a friend of mine on staff, that they do consider it a sin, but one that requires discreet handling on a case-by-case basis). If you say no, they will answer “then what is it to you?”

    To any Christian listening to the sermon, I thought it should have been obvious what Andy was saying, as he said it in multiple ways, including: “people may misunderstand your grace towards sinners as somehow condoning their sin, but that is not the case.” along with contrasting “gay-friendly churches” (“they spend their time affirming homosexuality”) and NPCC (“where we preach the Bible.”).

    It really should have been obvious and clear. But all too many of us are in the bunkers of Culture Wars we probably shouldn’t be waging the way we have chosen to wage them.

    • A H

      When you say “they all know homosexuality isn’t a sin” are you sure? (honest question) I’m reading a lot of supporters – who have their own blog followings – beginning to suggest that christian leaders have not outright decided whether this is a sin or not – directly related to this Andy Stanley controversy. That has really made me sad, these are members of NP and volunteers; I realize Andy may not have said or condone what these people are saying but wow if ever a time to address the issue now would be a good time to help end confusion….because obviously there is some confusion.

      My issues are far more than the homosexuality comments or lack of comments, lack of clairity on Stanley’s part. It’s the sermon itself.

      The idea that ‘the world needs to see something so attractive it’s almost irresistible’ (Andy Stanley) is so reversed from what I read. The world will HATE you because of me – Christ says. Was Christ so irresistible that he wasn’t crucified? They hated and rejected Him. And yes, His blood shed covers ALL sins. Yet that justification that takes place, that forgiveness of sins, that acceptance of Christ – that’s God’s work. Those things don’t take place because of us – they take place in spite of us. Scripture teaches us that the natural man doesn’t understand. There isn’t a clause in that verse that states therefore go make yourselves more attractive to the world. No, we are to trust God – not ourselves. By thinking that if only we can reshape our image we are putting our faith in ourselves and not in God. God saves, not us. ‘Preaching doesn’t bring about change’ (Andy Stanley) ? What? Why did Christ tell us to go preach? Maybe He wasn’t informed on what works – maybe you can explain to him a better way? Christianity has a branding problem? So if we just become attractive enough people will be saved? Christianity does have a problem – a sin problem. We think to highly of ourselves and too lowly of God. And that’s all of us not just those who are bent towards certain sins. All sin deserves death – it’s by God’s kindness that any of us are saved. The heart above all is deceitful.

      Listen I hope I’m missing something and I don’t mind being corrected at all. I would far rather be wrong on this than for this to be the real direction.

    • Gerald

      My response is to Chris L ‘s comments and more specifically his last sentence. The one thing that should be obvious and clear, Chris to all, at this point is that Andy’s comments were anything but, “obvious and clear” or there would be no controversy, at all. Further it may be considered a bit of a condescending and empirical way of stating it . The implication is if everyone does not interpret Andy’s
      clearly controversial comments as you, they must be spiritually challenged. There have been many blogs and comments from countless highly regarded ,Godly teachers ,preachers ,etc. regarding this issue that clearly and loving disagree with Andy’s statement.

  • Jonathan Ramoutar

    Rudy and Chris, thanks for taking the time to comment and visit the site!

    Rudy: I agree I think tolerance is the key, but sometimes I feel that tolerance isn’t “enough” to the world, and like you said before Christians really have become the scapegoat and our “tolerance” at times is viewed as ignorance.

    Chris: I’m pretty sure I pointed out in my article that “this was just a small detail in the story”. I also agree with your second paragraph, and that’s pointed out in my third after “here’s where people get confused/offended”. Also, that’s a very interesting hypothetical situation that you bring up about Andy labeling homosexuality as a sin and not adultery. I still do however believe that Andy dropped the ball on this one. If I’m a first time church goer and I hear that lesson, I’m confused on Andy’s stance towards homosexuality. I think if he was going to tell this particular story he should have clearly stated his stance, or used a different story.

    I’m encouraged by the way the church in your response was dealing with this issue however, very inspiring.

  • A H

    I misquoted you (typo) you said they know homosexuality is a sin – I typed isn’t. My question is the same but I apologize for the typo.

  • Jonathan Ramoutar

    A.H,

    When it comes to Andy’s sermon, I think he was referring more to the fact that the general view of Christianity among non-christian circles is that we are “gay hating, self righteous people who think we are better then everyone else”. If that’s the case then we do have a branding problem. If people hate me because I love Jesus and think he’s the only way to heaven, and that I can’t do anything to save myself (and no one else can), then I’m okay with that. But if people hate me because I’m a Christian and I come off as being self-righteous or close minded then that’s not okay. It’s not okay because it means the body of Christ is not doing a good job of their lives reflecting the gospel. Not in terms of their “right or wrong moral choices” but in terms of their lives reflecting the humbling, graceful and amazing love of Jesus that saves all, no matter how “bad” they are.

    • http://www.scottcouey.com Scott Couey

      Jonathan, I attend one of Andy’s campuses and was there the Sunday he spoke about the couple dealing with adultery and homosexuality – and like Chris L. said the purpose and focus of the story was on the woman dealing with her bitterness towards her ex-husband. Regarding how the world sees Christians, Andy did a great 8-part series on this entitled “Christian” and I encourage everyone to listen to it: http://www.buckheadchurch.org/messages/christian

      He doesn’t talk about being “everything to everyone” and overlooking sin, but taking a step back and realizing that we all have tarnished the name “Christian” in the eyes of the world based on our attitudes and actions (ex. we hated people when we should have loved them). Yes homosexuality and adultery are sins, but how are we reacting to these people – are we loving them as Christ has called us to do? He loved the prostitutes and the tax collectors and we need to do the same.

      • http://daredreamermag.com Ron Dawson

        This is in response to Scott and Chris L. I attend one of the NP campuses and believe Andy to be one of the most influential, dead-on and amazing communicators of the gospel. It’s because of his teachings that we attend an NP campus. With that said, he is human. That means even Andy can make mistakes.

        I think overall that series on “Christian” was one of the best EVER. The first two or three were simply ground breaking (especially that Ann Rice story). With that said, I do think this aspect of the series was a blotch on its record.

        Chris, yes, the story was about the woman, but Andy made it a point to address the fact that the partner in the gay relationship was still married. If the story was JUST about the woman, why bring up the fact that the other partner was in an adulterous relationship? The woman’s ex husband’s adultery was the only one at issue for the woman. What does it matter to her if her ex-husband’s male lover is also having an adulterous affair?

        The fact that he addressed THAT adulterous affair as well as the one directly related to the woman is key. The fact that he addressed them serving on a host team is key. He was making a point about “truth.” In this case, making the hard decision to address the adulterous relationship of that other partner. It was clearly a point to show when it’s necessary to address these issues. He even referred to the discussion as being “disputatious” (a reference back to the Ann Rice story). So the point of that part of the story had nothing really to do with the woman, but everything to do with the church upholding truth by addressing adultery.

        As I watched that story, I waited for Andy to aslo address the openly gay lifestyle. The fact that he didn’t IS confusing to those of us who for years have listened and watched Andy’s teachings and uphold him to be an effective, truthful and biblically relevant teacher of the gospel.

        I’ve heard enough of Andy’s teachings to remain confident in his stance on teaching the gospel to be one that affirms biblical teaching. I’m not going to stop going to his church or stop listening to him just over this one sermon. But, it will cause me to keep my eyes and ears more perked up in the future.

        As I said: he is human. He will make mistakes. I haven’t seen a pattern of unbiblical teachings from the church or Andy. If I ever do, then I’ll prayerfully consider a change. Until then, I still think he’s one of the most gifted communicators of the gospel around.

        • Eric White

          Man, the Bible. That it is where it is at. It’s the book we worship. It is the word of God. It is God on Earth. Jesus, he was great, but the Bible. That is it. That is the object of our worship. Thankfully it has so many great Christian passages in it so we might not do that which we ought not (for the Bible tells us so):

          “You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the Lord.” Lev 19:28 — Tattoo-wearing sinners

          “Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments.” 1 Tim 2:9 — Cross wearing sinners

          And most important of all I think for good Bible-worshipers:

          “You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.” Lev 19:19 — You, and I, and all who live in contemporary first-world nations a sinner nearly everyday of our lives, according to our God, the Bible.

          But my personal favorite:

          “No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the LORD.” Deu 23:1

          Speaks for itself. Sinful war veterans with damaged genitals, and sinful John Wayne Bobbit. Thankfully us Bible-worshipers will make sure the Bible’s will is done and keep these sinners out of the assembly of God.

          Or… perhaps… we might worship the One, True God, His son Jesus Christ, He ever present as the Spirit touching our hearts and breathing His love into us. Just a thought…

          • http://www.quarterlifeman.com Jayson Schmidt

            Love it, Eric. That’s such truth.

          • http://adamross616.wordpress.com Jan Liebegott

            you understand.

  • Gerald

    I totally agree with Denise K. I too have attended and followed the teachings of Andy . He is a very gifted and Godly communicator. She has very thoughtfully and lovingly assessed the situation . I admire her courage to stand up and speak against her pastors puzzleing comments. Right is right and wrong is wrong . God’s Holy Word is abundantly clear and does not say that we have the right to change or modify it to accommodate any sinful lifestyle just because it is prevalent today .The only thing I would add is that we must remember it is very important to continue invite and welcome all sinners into God’s house .We must lovingly and patiently offer Godly counsel to them and then after a period of time the sinner must choose if they want to change thier lifestyle to remain in the church ……God’s word is eternal and he was well aware of how this world would decline when he inspired the writers to write the bible.

  • http://adamross616.wordpress.com Jan Liebegott

    Speaking as a 66 year young Disciple of our Lord Jesus, all my life, I simply cannot understand why homosexuality is an issue. Whether straight or gay, loving, committed, faithful relationships are not condemned in the Bible, so Pastor Andy is on the right track. The Bible isn’t even talking about homosexuality as we know it today; as I’ve known it all my life. Love is Love. That was the message of Jesus and it applies to all sexual orientations. That’s the Truth.

  • a

    Many people went to him and asked him to clarify, I believe that is where the controversy lies. There is love for the sinner (all of us) but not the sin. Call it what it is.

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